Last week we had a sale in Valencia and we spent five hours sorting out the final signing in the notary because banks are useless. Or rather in this case one particular bank is useless and in this post we are going to tell you what happened and why it's important to choose the right bank and of course why that bank should never be ING Direct!
Now we have previously had problems with ING Direct. What difficulties? Difficulties with getting bank drafts which have to be emitted from Madrid then posted, yes posted, to Valencia for pick up in the branch, meaning completion had to be delayed because they didn't arrive (It's their internal postal system but it still doesn't work). Last week though they took incompetence to an absolutely new level. Last week it was performance art incompetence.
The Uselessness of ING Direct
Our client went to her bank in Madrid a couple of weeks ago to order the cheques for her purchase "We don't do cheques*" they said, "You just need to phone up this number and order the transfers and it's immediate". The first red flag was here as the number was a call centre, not her branch. (*Maybe that's because of tgheir previous internal postal system)
She caught the early train down from Madrid and we were in the notary at 10am to get everything in place. All went smoothly until 10.30 when the notary came in and read the deed. Both parties signed off and then the call was made to the bank for the transfers. The notary doesn't sign off until he has proof of transfer.
Now there's something to explain here, there are two types of transfers. A normal transfer you can do yourself but the money will only appear in the other person's account the next day when done with Spanish banks. Not ideal. Equally, that might not be valid in the eyes of the notary and is usually unacceptable to the seller, they want their money and they want it now in the form of a bank draft or seeing the money arrive in their account. For this there's an OMF transfer which is a transfer via the bank of Spain and is "Immediate". An OMF transfer is an "Order for the Movement of Funds" and luckily in Spanish it's also OMF as it's Orden de Movimiento de Fondos so no confusion. (This is unlike the IMF which in Spanish is FMI and is much too reminiscent of a furniture shop to Brits as opposed to the International Monetary Fund)
So a call was made and after going through at least ten "press 1 for... press 2 for...", stages we got through to the "lovely" Diego. At first Diego was a bit confused it seems but eventually we got to ordering the transfers, one to cancel the mortgage and the other to pay the excess to the owner, and we were told to wait. we asked Diego to ring us back in five minutes once it was done and he said he would... the little liar.
Our client kept refreshing her banking app but the money stayed stubbornly in her account. By 11.00 it was time for another call. And of course this time after passing through the labyrinthine "press 1 for... press 2 for etc..", we decided it was better just to say "Hablar con un agente" at each option until we got to talk to someone. This time we got the anti-Diego, somewbody who hated Diego with a passion evidently because nothing, but nothing, Diego had said was right... apparently.
The transfers wouldn't be done immediately they would be done "at some stage in the morning". Of course we said this is not acceptable because 8 people were waiting on them at the notary and both Diego and the client's bank had previously told them that the transfers would be immediate. "That's not how we work" they insisted. but "It will be done quickly".
By 12 we decided it was time to visit the only branch of ING nearby. The really nice guy in the branch got it in the neck before telling us that everyone else in the bank was wrong but that he would "send an email as the main office usually answered them quickly". At this point all I can think of is Moss in the IT Crowd mailing the fire service as his office was burning down.
At 12.30, (so just under half an hour, now that is quick...) he got an answer saying that all of the people who worked on this had been in a meeting but they were coming out now and would act immediately to get the transfers done and by the way did we want all four transfers to be done.
Pardon me!
They had ordered two lots of two transfers to be done to pay for the house and cancel the mortgage twice. So he told them to cancel two of them and assured us it would be done quickly now.
We went back to the notary's office to shoot the breeze for a while...
By 2pm we were a bit livid... Client was refreshing her app every minute and still no transfer had been made. If the money had gone it would have been the first time I would have seen anyone so relieved to see their bank account drained in real time. But it still wasn't happening, remember we started this process at 10.30! By this point the seller had left as they had an appointment. We chatted some more, client refreshed the app some more...
2.15pm it was time to visit the bank once more and as most people know banks close at 2pm in Spain but luckily not ING Direct. They stay open longer so they can torture people and lie to them some more. This time our client went with her lawyer to ask "WTF" among other things. The manager was called down from the floor above and finally took some action. She sent an email AND phoned the main office to ask what the actual f*ck was going on.
To cut a long story slightly shorter I got a call at 3.10 that the transfer had finally been done and that the money would be in the seller's account immediately. Almost five hours. Apparently that's immediate in the eyes of ING Direct. The buyer received a confirmation mail, sent it onto the notary's office and the notary was able to sign off on the sale having finally seen the payment.
This is absolutely unacceptable of course. The lawyer put in a complaint at the ING Direct branch. This of course will mean absolutely nothing and the bank will do nothing about it and carry on regardless weith their useless and frustrating system.
We can do something about it though and you have just read what we can do about it, just let everyone know (Share this post if you know anyone even contemplating using ING Direct). If you want to avoid problems buying your Spanish property avoid ING Direct like the plague. They have no major branch network, nobody who knows what they are doing working in the call centre, nobody at the few branches they have with any capacity to help and they basically lie to get you to go away. I can't say this loud enough and often enough.
"Never Use ING Direct For Anything"
So if that is one bank down, who should you use in Spain when buying a property? Now that's an interesting question.
Our Banking Recommendations
When buying a property there are essentially four main banks to use and they are all much of a muchness if you are using them for the first time and you just walk in and open an account. Service isn't great, charges will be levied and you will be generally underwhelmed with them. It is really important to have a contact in those banks who understands what you are doing and why you need certain services and also what services you will have no need for.
We work with people we know in Banco Sabadell, Caixabank, BBVA and Santander. We have a particular branch or branches in Valencia for each one of them with a person in the office who speaks English, understands your requirements, will not try to push extra services onto you and is always there for any enquiries you might make further down the line. Just ask us and we'll put you in contact or if you are here to get everything ready for your purchase we'll do one of our famous organised and minutely detailed Orientation Mornings where we get your bank account opened, your Power of Attorney drawn up, your introduction to a lawyer and your currency service set up (Or any selection of the list there)
Can I Use Wise or Revolut?
The new online banks are great but can you use them for buying property here. Well, not really no. And at this point I say some people do and successfully but that's usually because the seller accepts what you tell them and puts their sale at risk, if only slightly. You can use them for everyday payments and costs, you can even use Revolut now for your utility bill payments along with N26, Monzo or others (That simply requires a Spanish IBAN bank number). However, they do not provide services for emitting bank drafts, making OMF transfers (just like ING Direct in that respect) or cancelling mortgages etc... This is despite the fact that transfers from Wise and Revolut are often immediate and can be in the bank of the seller within seconds. This cannot be guaranteed however and there is an issue from the notary's point of view at times with these services that they may not be happy with the source of funds for the transaction.
Notaries like all other public service bodies, banks and financial institutions in Spain have a duty to "Know Your Client". This means they need to know the source of funds. If the source is a Spanish bank then they know that work has been done. If it is from a Bitcoin Wallet, a bank outside the EU or other places they might not sign off a transaction.
Conclusions
Choosing the right bank can save you a lot of stress, heartache and ultimately money. Choosing ING Direct could ruin your purchase, your health and your mental wellbeing. We were lucky in this case that the seller was understanding and knew what was happening as we were able to explain it clearly and they could see and hear what we were doing at all times to get the transfers done. A lot of sellers would not be so understanding but this was a special case as they are remaining in the property for a week before doing their removals as they buy a place next week. Also they had met and talked to our buyer various times. That's what happens when you work with us too.
We can help you choose the right bank, the right lawyers and even the right notary for your purchase and make sure everything goes smoothly. What we cannot do is polish the turd that is ING Direct if that is your chosen bank. Expect big problems.
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Here at Valencia Property we are given a free rein to list and write whatever we like and a parade of properties of good stock is important to keep the punters coming through the turnstiles.
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Investing in a property and project of this scale is not a spur of the moment decision but when you remove the blinkers, go to the races and study the form, the pedigree is clear. Places like this are rarer than rocking horse shit and we ride roughshod over the Neigh-sayers, so why not put our Project Managers and building team through their paces?
You’re on the home straight, clear that final hurdle and gallop to the finish line.
Take a punt, send an email, it’s not our first Rodeo. (And maybe take a look at the photos on the listing to see everything you get on this one. Lots of space and more)
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We had a signing yesterday and went with our client for lunch after to Las Lunas Soul Kitchen (our favourite) in Valencia. We came out after two hours and he said “You can’t even dream of a two hour lunch in the States” We taught him a Spanish word “Sobremesa” that is so important here…
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